Hello people, here is a topic that i don’t think comes up often, and as it is something that i am thinking and had a convo the other day with this girl i thought i’d get other thoughts. Let me give you what came up:
We were talking about cheating and the morality/immorality of cheating. Her argument was 1) it is human nature to cheat and 2) if someone cheats the person ought not to tell the other person because it would only cause harm.
I disagreed with this because there is no way “cheating” can be claimed as human nature- irt would also be human nature to not cheat- because the argument rests on examples.
It would place the girl/man in a position of corruptibility if he/she was asked “did you cheat while i was away?” and he/she lies- integrity may not remain iff the person considers him/herself to have integrity; however, i do not dispute the fact that being honest could cause harm- even irreparable harm, but wouldn’t that be the cost for cheating?
Also, when is it considered to be cheating= is watching porn, or masterbating about someone very close, or how about a drunken kiss? On this notion a person could remain with their honesty simply by defining what it is and what it isn’t to cheat- isn’t that what we do on many occasions anyway…just to make ourselves feel good?
Or, is there nothing wrong with cheating, and we should all do it anyway?
Every relationship is different so there is no definition of cheating – except when you violate the trust of the other person. When in a relationship it is important to treat the other person with respect. They have a right to know what is happening in the relationship. If you have honest communication throughout, you can divert the urge to cheat, and/or give your partner warning if you are leaving the relationship. If watching porn leaves your partner feeling violated and rejected, then it is cheating. The person either needs to end the relationship if it is not a good fit, stop watching, or negotiate a compromise that both people are comfortable with. This is true of any activity. If one partner is always driven to cheat, it is worth ending the relationship or making it non-committal. No one should feel trapped into being with someone, but no one should trick someone into thinking they are committed to them when it is not the case. Not telling them makes them feel they need to be faithful to you. If you violate their trust they should be free to decide if they still want you or if they would like to find someone new. There are 6 billion people in the world and plenty with great appeal. No one of us is the one great person to love. We are all replacable.If you are honest from the beginning there is no huge revelation of cheating, rejection, and pain. If you really want to protect your partner – BE HONEST from the start.
Yes, well there is some significant portion of our current world that is based upon deception. It goes into shades of gray. Thee are the bold faced lies and then there are the little withholdings of information that serve to alienate people from advancement and power. I think that if you were to talk to your partner and say I am inerested in other people but I don’t want to end our relationship, if they understood and agreed to the terms of the contract then you would not need to tell them about every fling. Many upper crust couples have affairs (both the man and woman) for much of their marriage. They call them flings or trysts. The game is played in this fashion. As long as noone embarasses the other with the details not much is said, even then it passes. But again these are relationships that often are econmically and socially important but fidelity is not really expected. There are culture inplications too. American’s are so strongly Christian in heritage that cheating here is almost as dispicable as murder (relatively speaking). In France it is much less so.
Personally I find that my conscience is troubled when I try to keep things from my spouse so I try to alway keep any needed changes in the status quo in the conversation pipeline before doing anything.
In the end relationships are all negotiate, contracts really. If the contract says lie to me on this and this as long as this and this are always like this, then you are not harming the other person. The fact that you lied will not bother them, even if it bothers you. But most people feel that sex is something more than just a fun thing to do with whoever is willing, they equate sexual rights with emotional territory and thus jealousy is the result.
Most adult American’s play around with the notion of cheating, they flirt and mature couples tolerate this. Very few couples I know actually can handle open embracement of sexual promiscuity from within a marriage. But yes the desire to have multiple partners is very much a part of human nature, but a par6t that we have been able to varying degrees to surpress. Lying however is a choice, for some lying is a way of life and the choice aspect is pushed to subconscious levels. When a person lies to save their life you can’t blame them but something about lying to go have sex with someone seems selfish in a very trivial way and that probably makes it less justifiable.
I totally agree with Petunia. Cheating is the result of selfishness and lack of integrity, and cannot be attributed to human nature. However, I believe there are certain circumstances in which one might find him/herself faced with a dilemma, as to whether what he/she is willing to do would constitute an act of cheating, in essence. I think if such situations arise, one should place himself in his partner’s position and then look at the issue form that perspective and be honest at least with himself in order to come to a conclusion which would either certify or invalidate the intention of advancement in the process. Yet, after evaluating all the pros and cons if he decides to commit the act of cheating, then he should advise his partner prior to taking action, and I believe this would negate the very basic concept of the cheating as an immoral act, and would not be considered as cheating. Now, if he takes action prior to advising his partner, he has already committed an immoral act and the moral thing would be not only not to hide the fact from his partner, but also, voluntarily inform her as soon as possible, and accept the consequences as the result of his wrongdoing.
Declaiming responsibility for one’s actions because of intoxication is fallable. You shoot the drug/take the drink/etc., you accept the consequences. It’s as simple as that.
Along similar lines, I have never been able to understand why anyone would use the excuse “It didn’t mean anything” or “I wasn’t in my right mind,” etc. to explain the violation of trust in a relationship. So your relationship means so little to you that you were willing to violate its covenants and put it on the line for something “meaningless” and frivolous? Yeah, that’s an excellent excuse.
Would one trust a person who was dishonest/deceitful/a liar? Would one wish to form a close personal relationship with someone whom one cannot trust?
(this is perhaps why your lady friend believes that a cheater is justified in concealing his/her dishonesty – but concealing dishonesty does not make it “right” – it only perhaps evades the consequences of that dishonesty)
Well I view cheating to be having any sexual/romantic thoughts of someone else other than your partner, or to be physically involved with another person other than your partner. There is no valid excuse for it and I think it to be incredibly low. I believe the problem with many people today is that they fail to take relationships seriously, and as a result, cheating is far more common than it should be. I’m a bit surprised at a certain poster’s thoughts on the matter. As someone said, you drink, you accept the consequences. Simple no?
rahasya, your actions are not ethical, but they are sooooooo typically male. i’m a guy too and i fantasise about some rough sex too. it’s really not that bad, but try to get a life in stead of concentrating on this. othermise, you’ll became a real weirdo.
i went beond a simple fantasy. i actually forced fucked two women in my life. my first girlfriend and another laddie. i’m not proud of it. but i’m not very affected either. i felt like a man. i felt storng and i enjoyed hearing them cry and whimper. i did not hurt them. it was simple sex, maybe a bit rougher, but in the end they both came in my hands. one of them actually cursed me for meking her came and embassing her so much. since then i got married. my wife can’t bear children, so we’re still into simple sex and nothing more. i do not love her.
as far as you’re concerned, i think you need to talk to mz rott, here. she’s a good listener and a smart girl. i think you don’t have my issues. you’re still CLEAN.
Soniarott,
Since you asked me explain our relationship, I am doing it. I met her one year back and it was passionate love. She actually used to have a boy friend, with whom she spend lived. I was not aware of it when I proposed her and after I proposed, she accepted, she brokeo off that relationship. Even then we used to live in 12 hours distance, so when ever we meet we used to have light sex. ( i think you understand). Later our college was finished and our parents approved the marriage and we then started having sex frequently. She likes it very much, I can see it always in her face. Though the act is not as exciting to me as it is to her, I like to see her when I am doing it and try to make her more and more happier.
Later we got a chance to live together alone for one month and during period our sex life reached a peak. Then I casually asked her, “is this sex enjoyable to you if its given by any man?” and she agreed. She said she likes more the act and does not care( as much as I do) from whom it comes. That is completely against my ideas. I used to think( I still believe) that one cant have sex, if you dont love them. After that one month, I needed to leave the country and we still did not meet.
Though we are prepared for this from the starting of relationship, we could not bear it. I used to satiate my desire with masturbation. And my masturbation is an entierely diferent story. I wont do it by touching it, I will lie front, and imagine something and it will come automatically. I am used to this for the last 7 years. She also tried different things, like masturbating, phone sex, webcam sex, role play (virtually) but she was not satisfied.
She want something real, now came the twist in our relationship. I once said, I can masturbate easily, if I imagine she having sex with someone else. And we talked more about it. Without my knowledge she is already having some affairs over the net already. When she told me about them with some fear, I asked the strangest thing. “Make it REAL”. In this my perpsective is dual 1. She is getting what she wants- sex and she does not have qualms who the patner is 2. I am getting excited when she tells me about it. So I thought lets see, where this leads us to.
And two days back she finally slept with that guy, but that guy was not relaxed and she did not enjoy that much. But anyway it happened and she described it to me. I began masturbating like anything. When she told that she was leaving, I totally did it for 4 times,….
Seeing all this from outsiders perspective, its really profane, ugly, unethical. How come I am getting excited for she having sex? I think its not her behaviour that is weird but its mine, since I am encouraging her to do it.
But lately, just yesterday. I asked her to stop it or do it without giving me any clues as I am getting too much disturbed, which I cant afford.
I guess you are correct. The more I am thinking about this, the more profane I am getting. I should get busy somehow. First, I used to be ok with masturbating, then i used to think of ppl in those penthouse letters, then i started thinking of my wife, now I am asking her to do it. Where will I get to? GOD
I should stop thinking and get busy in other things. But every day a night comes, which brings this sort of ideas in me.
soul magazine-anthems
litkey said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Hello people, here is a topic that i don’t think comes up often, and as it is something that i am thinking and had a convo the other day with this girl i thought i’d get other thoughts. Let me give you what came up:
We were talking about cheating and the morality/immorality of cheating. Her argument was 1) it is human nature to cheat and 2) if someone cheats the person ought not to tell the other person because it would only cause harm.
I disagreed with this because there is no way “cheating” can be claimed as human nature- irt would also be human nature to not cheat- because the argument rests on examples.
It would place the girl/man in a position of corruptibility if he/she was asked “did you cheat while i was away?” and he/she lies- integrity may not remain iff the person considers him/herself to have integrity; however, i do not dispute the fact that being honest could cause harm- even irreparable harm, but wouldn’t that be the cost for cheating?
Also, when is it considered to be cheating= is watching porn, or masterbating about someone very close, or how about a drunken kiss? On this notion a person could remain with their honesty simply by defining what it is and what it isn’t to cheat- isn’t that what we do on many occasions anyway…just to make ourselves feel good?
Or, is there nothing wrong with cheating, and we should all do it anyway?
petunia said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Every relationship is different so there is no definition of cheating – except when you violate the trust of the other person. When in a relationship it is important to treat the other person with respect. They have a right to know what is happening in the relationship. If you have honest communication throughout, you can divert the urge to cheat, and/or give your partner warning if you are leaving the relationship. If watching porn leaves your partner feeling violated and rejected, then it is cheating. The person either needs to end the relationship if it is not a good fit, stop watching, or negotiate a compromise that both people are comfortable with. This is true of any activity. If one partner is always driven to cheat, it is worth ending the relationship or making it non-committal. No one should feel trapped into being with someone, but no one should trick someone into thinking they are committed to them when it is not the case. Not telling them makes them feel they need to be faithful to you. If you violate their trust they should be free to decide if they still want you or if they would like to find someone new. There are 6 billion people in the world and plenty with great appeal. No one of us is the one great person to love. We are all replacable.If you are honest from the beginning there is no huge revelation of cheating, rejection, and pain. If you really want to protect your partner – BE HONEST from the start.
playdo said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Yes, well there is some significant portion of our current world that is based upon deception. It goes into shades of gray. Thee are the bold faced lies and then there are the little withholdings of information that serve to alienate people from advancement and power. I think that if you were to talk to your partner and say I am inerested in other people but I don’t want to end our relationship, if they understood and agreed to the terms of the contract then you would not need to tell them about every fling. Many upper crust couples have affairs (both the man and woman) for much of their marriage. They call them flings or trysts. The game is played in this fashion. As long as noone embarasses the other with the details not much is said, even then it passes. But again these are relationships that often are econmically and socially important but fidelity is not really expected. There are culture inplications too. American’s are so strongly Christian in heritage that cheating here is almost as dispicable as murder (relatively speaking). In France it is much less so.
Personally I find that my conscience is troubled when I try to keep things from my spouse so I try to alway keep any needed changes in the status quo in the conversation pipeline before doing anything.
In the end relationships are all negotiate, contracts really. If the contract says lie to me on this and this as long as this and this are always like this, then you are not harming the other person. The fact that you lied will not bother them, even if it bothers you. But most people feel that sex is something more than just a fun thing to do with whoever is willing, they equate sexual rights with emotional territory and thus jealousy is the result.
Most adult American’s play around with the notion of cheating, they flirt and mature couples tolerate this. Very few couples I know actually can handle open embracement of sexual promiscuity from within a marriage. But yes the desire to have multiple partners is very much a part of human nature, but a par6t that we have been able to varying degrees to surpress. Lying however is a choice, for some lying is a way of life and the choice aspect is pushed to subconscious levels. When a person lies to save their life you can’t blame them but something about lying to go have sex with someone seems selfish in a very trivial way and that probably makes it less justifiable.
the kid said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I totally agree with Petunia. Cheating is the result of selfishness and lack of integrity, and cannot be attributed to human nature. However, I believe there are certain circumstances in which one might find him/herself faced with a dilemma, as to whether what he/she is willing to do would constitute an act of cheating, in essence. I think if such situations arise, one should place himself in his partner’s position and then look at the issue form that perspective and be honest at least with himself in order to come to a conclusion which would either certify or invalidate the intention of advancement in the process. Yet, after evaluating all the pros and cons if he decides to commit the act of cheating, then he should advise his partner prior to taking action, and I believe this would negate the very basic concept of the cheating as an immoral act, and would not be considered as cheating. Now, if he takes action prior to advising his partner, he has already committed an immoral act and the moral thing would be not only not to hide the fact from his partner, but also, voluntarily inform her as soon as possible, and accept the consequences as the result of his wrongdoing.
savage rabbit said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Declaiming responsibility for one’s actions because of intoxication is fallable. You shoot the drug/take the drink/etc., you accept the consequences. It’s as simple as that.
Along similar lines, I have never been able to understand why anyone would use the excuse “It didn’t mean anything” or “I wasn’t in my right mind,” etc. to explain the violation of trust in a relationship. So your relationship means so little to you that you were willing to violate its covenants and put it on the line for something “meaningless” and frivolous? Yeah, that’s an excellent excuse.
the boss said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:57 pm
i think if you have a desire to cheat, then you’re not in the right relationship to begin with.
moving finger said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Cheating is a form of dishonesty/deceit/lying.
Would one trust a person who was dishonest/deceitful/a liar? Would one wish to form a close personal relationship with someone whom one cannot trust?
(this is perhaps why your lady friend believes that a cheater is justified in concealing his/her dishonesty – but concealing dishonesty does not make it “right” – it only perhaps evades the consequences of that dishonesty)
crazy said,
March 3, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Well I view cheating to be having any sexual/romantic thoughts of someone else other than your partner, or to be physically involved with another person other than your partner. There is no valid excuse for it and I think it to be incredibly low. I believe the problem with many people today is that they fail to take relationships seriously, and as a result, cheating is far more common than it should be. I’m a bit surprised at a certain poster’s thoughts on the matter. As someone said, you drink, you accept the consequences. Simple no?
rahasya said,
March 6, 2007 at 12:27 am
Could some one say, are my actions ethical?
http://rahasya.wordpress.com/
ripper said,
March 6, 2007 at 7:44 pm
rahasya, your actions are not ethical, but they are sooooooo typically male. i’m a guy too and i fantasise about some rough sex too. it’s really not that bad, but try to get a life in stead of concentrating on this. othermise, you’ll became a real weirdo.
grabber said,
March 6, 2007 at 7:53 pm
i went beond a simple fantasy. i actually forced fucked two women in my life. my first girlfriend and another laddie. i’m not proud of it. but i’m not very affected either. i felt like a man. i felt storng and i enjoyed hearing them cry and whimper. i did not hurt them. it was simple sex, maybe a bit rougher, but in the end they both came in my hands. one of them actually cursed me for meking her came and embassing her so much. since then i got married. my wife can’t bear children, so we’re still into simple sex and nothing more. i do not love her.
as far as you’re concerned, i think you need to talk to mz rott, here. she’s a good listener and a smart girl. i think you don’t have my issues. you’re still CLEAN.
the boss said,
March 6, 2007 at 7:56 pm
sonia, this blog of yours is turning into a “solve my problem, i’m a weirdo” thing. sorry for you, laddie.
soniarott said,
March 6, 2007 at 7:57 pm
hey, i’m here to talk to people. let them come to me…
rahaysa said,
March 11, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Soniarott,
Since you asked me explain our relationship, I am doing it. I met her one year back and it was passionate love. She actually used to have a boy friend, with whom she spend lived. I was not aware of it when I proposed her and after I proposed, she accepted, she brokeo off that relationship. Even then we used to live in 12 hours distance, so when ever we meet we used to have light sex. ( i think you understand). Later our college was finished and our parents approved the marriage and we then started having sex frequently. She likes it very much, I can see it always in her face. Though the act is not as exciting to me as it is to her, I like to see her when I am doing it and try to make her more and more happier.
Later we got a chance to live together alone for one month and during period our sex life reached a peak. Then I casually asked her, “is this sex enjoyable to you if its given by any man?” and she agreed. She said she likes more the act and does not care( as much as I do) from whom it comes. That is completely against my ideas. I used to think( I still believe) that one cant have sex, if you dont love them. After that one month, I needed to leave the country and we still did not meet.
Though we are prepared for this from the starting of relationship, we could not bear it. I used to satiate my desire with masturbation. And my masturbation is an entierely diferent story. I wont do it by touching it, I will lie front, and imagine something and it will come automatically. I am used to this for the last 7 years. She also tried different things, like masturbating, phone sex, webcam sex, role play (virtually) but she was not satisfied.
She want something real, now came the twist in our relationship. I once said, I can masturbate easily, if I imagine she having sex with someone else. And we talked more about it. Without my knowledge she is already having some affairs over the net already. When she told me about them with some fear, I asked the strangest thing. “Make it REAL”. In this my perpsective is dual 1. She is getting what she wants- sex and she does not have qualms who the patner is 2. I am getting excited when she tells me about it. So I thought lets see, where this leads us to.
And two days back she finally slept with that guy, but that guy was not relaxed and she did not enjoy that much. But anyway it happened and she described it to me. I began masturbating like anything. When she told that she was leaving, I totally did it for 4 times,….
Seeing all this from outsiders perspective, its really profane, ugly, unethical. How come I am getting excited for she having sex? I think its not her behaviour that is weird but its mine, since I am encouraging her to do it.
But lately, just yesterday. I asked her to stop it or do it without giving me any clues as I am getting too much disturbed, which I cant afford.
rahaysa said,
March 11, 2007 at 9:00 pm
ripper,
I guess you are correct. The more I am thinking about this, the more profane I am getting. I should get busy somehow. First, I used to be ok with masturbating, then i used to think of ppl in those penthouse letters, then i started thinking of my wife, now I am asking her to do it. Where will I get to? GOD
I should stop thinking and get busy in other things. But every day a night comes, which brings this sort of ideas in me.
Should I see a psycologist?
May be